How To Bully-Proof Your Daughter

RADA | Bully Proof


If you’ve ever been bullied in your childhood, you’d know just what a quagmire the hallways of middle school are for kids. No matter how much you want to protect your daughter, there is simply no way to prevent bullying incidents from happening. How do you bully-proof your daughter? The answer has surprisingly little to do with the bullies themselves. In this episode, Tim Jordan, MD, teaches us a few tricks to help our daughters cope with bullying by not letting words hurt them, being in charge of their own feelings, and not letting anyone take away their power. Dr. Jordan shares a few ways to instill this to your daughter in a language that they can understand. There is so much to learn from this episode. Tune in!

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How To Bully-Proof Your Daughter

I finished a weekend retreat with about twenty middle school girls. I was reminded what a quagmire the hallways of middle school are for kids. There is so much drama, so many friendship issues, so much insecurity, so much uncertainty, if you will, and so much change going on all around them. I thought I would talk and give you some suggestions for some ideas about how you can bully-proof your daughter. I mean that in a sense that you can’t prevent stuff from happening. You can’t prevent girls in the hallway or boys from teasing them, making fun of them, or spreading a rumor about them, but we can certainly teach them how to take care of themselves and not take things on.

I worry sometimes about how we’re framing mean words or teasing words. I saw a girl in my office a few months ago. I’ll call her Julia. She was in middle school. She came running into my office one day for a follow-up visit. She was so excited and happy. She said, “It worked.” I said to her, “What do you mean it worked?” She said, “What you told me about handling the teasing thing worked.” I’ll mention in a moment where I taught Julia, but that sense of pride and confidence is what I want every kid to have.

I’m afraid when girls go home with stories about, “Somebody called me a name. Somebody was mean to me.” I, too often, think parents go, “You poor thing.” In a sense, we keep our girls as victims. We’re teaching them that you should be at the mercy of other people’s feelings, other people’s words, or other people’s gestures, if you will. I am worrying that we’re raising a generation of girls who are being victimized by those things instead of empowering them.

I heard a story a long time ago about Booker T. Washington. He was the President of Tuskegee University in Alabama. He founded it. One day, he was walking back to the college from somewhere. He passed this mansion that was owned by this elderly wealthy woman. She saw him walking by. She didn’t know who he was. She said, “Come here. I need some firewood chopped.” Without a word, Booker T. Washington said, “Of course, ma’am.” He took off his jacket, picked up an axe, and started cutting firewood. He piled it into a big pile. He even walks into the house for her. She said, “Thanks,” and he walked on. He walked back to the university.

Once he was gone, one of her servants came over to her and said, “Do you know who that was?” She was like, “No.” She said, “That’s Booker T. Washington. He’s the President of the university down the street, Tuskegee University.” This woman felt mortified. She was like, “I can’t believe I treated him that way.” She put on a coat, ran up the street, found him in his office, and apologized profusely. Booker T. Washington said something important. He said, “There’s no need to apologize. I’m always willing to help and do favors for my friends.” That woman became one of Tuskegee University’s biggest donors and benefactors all because he was not willing to allow words to hurt and to react in an angry way.

A Little Push Game

Let me talk to you and give you some suggestions about some things that you can teach your daughters. You can let your daughters read this with you. This is about how they cannot allow words to hurt and how they can start keeping their power and taking care of themselves. These are some of the things that I taught that girl, Julia. One of the things I do sometimes with girls is I do a little push game. I did this at a school, working with some third graders. I had a volunteer come up. I said, “Who’s the biggest, toughest kid in your class?” They said, “It’s so-and-so.”

This girl came up and she was one of the tallest kids in the class. I had her stand maybe about 2 feet from me. We put our feet together and put our hands up in front of us. The objective of the game was to see who could make the other person lose their balance by pushing on our hands. Losing your balance would be either falling to the side or something. Each person who fell to the side would lose a point. I said, “Let’s see who can win the most points.” This is in front of all their classmates, so they’re like, “Go get him.”

I said, “Ready, set, go.” The tall girl pushed as hard as she could at my hands to knock me over. I immediately let my hands go backward like a noodle. She was like, “What?” I said, “Do it again.” We put our hands up, she pushed again, and I let go. She fell forward again. She got a look on her face like, “You’re cheating.” I was like, “I’m not cheating,” and then she got it. When I tried to push her hands, she let go. She realized that if she pulled her hands back every time I pushed, I didn’t have the ability to knock her off balance.

One time, we both pushed at the same time and she went backward. I told her, “I might be a little bit stronger than you.” I asked the kids in the class around her, “Why do you think she keeps losing?” Their first thought was, “You’re bigger than her.” I said, “That’s not true. Let me prove that to you.” I had her stand up again and we faced each other. I told her I was going to start pushing not very hard and then harder until I said, “I’m going to be pushing as hard as I can to prove to you I cannot make you lose your balance unless you let me.”

I pushed harder and she kept letting her hands go. I said, “Like a noodle with no resistance, let it go.” I pushed as hard as I could and she didn’t budge an inch. I told the girls, “The pushing is a metaphor for if somebody calls you a name, somebody teases you, or somebody spreads a rumor about you. You can react and lose your balance not by falling over but by having your feelings hurt, getting angry, or saying something mean, hateful, or disrespectful back. You can create a big drama about it or you can metaphorically let it go.”

I always ask the kids. I said, “Who’s responsible for this girl’s feelings if I call her a name?” They say, “She is. I say, “What if I called her a really bad name?” They get that confused look on their face and they’re not sure. Usually, most of them say, “You’re responsible because you called her a bad name.” I tell them, “No. All of us always are responsible for our feelings.”

Eleanor Roosevelt said a long time ago, “Nobody has the power to make you feel anything unless you give them permission.” I tell them, “No matter what someone says to you, you always have the ability to deflect it, not take it on, and not allow it to hurt your feelings. It’s not always easy, but you have that ability.” I usually have the whole class stand up. They pick a partner and they all get to practice letting go.


RADA | Bully Proof


The energy in the room is electric. It’s a good metaphor for them. I tell them, “Don’t walk around school pulling your hands back in your head if someone calls you a name because that will make people tease you. In your head, you can be deflecting it by saying, ‘I’m not going to let it get to me. I’m in charge of my feelings, not them.’”

My wife and I also teach kids in our school program and also in our camps a little trick called tomato words. We used to say Volkswagen, but kids don’t know what Volkswagens are. I tell them, “If someone calls you a name or someone says stupid, not out loud, but inside your head, I want you to have a conversation with yourself quickly like this. Say, ‘Relax. I’m not a tomato. I know I’m not that word.’ Don’t give your power away. You’re in charge. You can smile and say, “Whatever.” You walk away and give that other person nothing. No power, no control.

That’s a powerful tool. That’s the tool that I taught to Julia in my office, the girl I talked about at the beginning. I taught her after our push game about tomato words. I even say it in a classroom of kids at one of our weekend retreats or summer camps. I’ll ask permission to call a girl a name. She’ll say, “Okay.” I’ll say, “Are you sure?” She’ll say, “Yes.” I say, “You’re a tomato.” The response is typically giggles all around her and her.

I’ll say, “Why are you laughing? I’m calling you a tomato. You’re a tomato.” They start giggling louder. I say, “Why are you laughing?” They’ll say, “That’s silly. I know I’m not a tomato. That’s dumb.” I say, “Exactly.” The key is for you to learn to make every word a tomato word. I tell them, “There are no mean words. There are words. You can let them be mean words and get your feelings hurt or be upset. You can do that if you want or you can make all those words a tomato word and metaphorically not take it on.”

There are no mean words. There are just words. You can let them be mean words and get your feelings hurt or you can make all those words a tomato word. Click To Tweet

A Lesson From Aesop’s Fable

I teach the girls also. There’s an old Aesop fable. I mentioned this in an episode several years ago, but I’ll repeat it. It’s about a fox walking down the road. He is very hungry and sees a bunch of birds up on a tree limb. He says, “I’ve got a deal for you. I’m willing to go dig up a big old fat worm and give it to you. All I want in return is one of your feathers.” The birds are all huddled together and are like, “I don’t know. I don’t trust him. He is always trying to trick us.” One little bird decided, “I’ll do it. If you bring me a worm, I’ll give you one of my feathers.”

The fox walked off, dug up a big old fat nightcrawler worm, and put it in the ground. This little bird flew down, plucked out one of her feathers, and gave it to the fox. He then grabbed the worm, flew off, ate it, and thought, “That’s awesome. That’s like a free meal.” The next day, the fox brought another worm. The same little bird flew down, plucked out one of her feathers, gave it to the fox, grabbed the worm, and flew off. She was like, “This is incredible. It’s like free meals every day.” This went on every day for several months until one day, she had plucked out so many of her feathers she could no longer fly. The fox jumped on her and ate her up. The end.

In all of Aesop’s fables, there’s always a moral to the story. The moral of the story is don’t give up your feathers, i.e. don’t give up your power. If you let things like words bother you, it’s like handing someone a feather. It’s like saying to somebody, “You’re in charge of my feelings. You’re in charge of my mood.” I’ve walked into school. I’m in a great mood. I’m happy. You say one thing about my outfit and I’m devastated. I feel upset all day. I can’t stop thinking about it. In essence, I’ve said, “You’re in charge of my moods. You’re in charge of my feelings.”

If you let things like words bother you, it's like saying to somebody that they're in charge of your feelings. Click To Tweet

I tell them, “Keep your feathers. Keep your power. If someone calls you a name, you smile.” In your head, you’re saying, “I’m not tomato. I’m not giving my power away.” You smile and say, “Whatever,” and you walk away. You’ve given up no feathers. You’ve given them no power. You haven’t been triggered. Usually, after a little while, that person stops doing it because there are no goodies for them. You’re not giving them what they’re looking for, which is a little bit of power or control. Using tomato words is a powerful tool. That girl, Julia, was an example of that. I tell them, “Keep your feathers. Keep your power.”

We also teach girls at our camps two other quick things if someone calls them a name. If someone says, “Shorty,” to a girl who’s short, then we teach you how to do what we call a mighty might. Mighty might is you say to that person, “You might be right,” and you shrug your shoulders, smile, and walk away. You haven’t said, “I’m short. I’m an idiot. I’m ugly.” You say, “Whatever. You might be right,” and walk off. You keep your feathers.

You use the mighty might or add on a butt twist. The butt twist would sound like this. If someone says, “Shorty,” you would say, “You might be right. I like being short, but I’m quick. I am short, but when we played hide and seek earlier, I was running around underneath the tables. I never bumped my head and you did.” Tomato words, the mighty might, and the butt twist are really quick, easy ways for girls to deflect words, not take them on, and not give their power away. They move on and give nothing to that person who’s teasing them. It’s powerful.

I tell girls the words that are hardest to make tomato words are the ones you believe a little bit. For instance, there was a girl at our weekend retreat who struggles in school. She has an IEP, an Individual Education Plan, because she has some mild learning disabilities. School’s hard. It takes her a lot longer to do things than the people sitting next to her at school. She thinks she’s stupid and dumb because things come to her so much harder and it takes a lot longer time. If someone called her stupid, that’s a word that’s going to be hard for her to make into a tomato word. It’s not because it’s true or because it’s a mean word but because she believes it.

If someone is tall and they like being tall and someone said, “Cyclops,” they’d be like, “I love being tall. Come out in the basketball court and I’ll show you why.” Maybe you’re the tallest one in the class, which happens for a lot of girls in the late grade school age. That is 4th grade or 5th grade where the first girl goes into puberty and she shoots up within a year or so. She’s the tallest one in the class. She is taller than the boys and starts getting curves. She feels very self-conscious. She doesn’t like being tall because it makes her stand out. If someone called her Cyclops or giraffe, that word might hurt, not because it’s a mean word but because she doesn’t like being tall.

I tell kids, “If you can learn to accept those parts of you, the fact that you have to wear glasses, the fact that you’re tall or short, or that you struggle in certain subjects in school and realize, ‘I have no control over my eyesight. I have no control over my height. I have no control over the need for an IEP. I can work hard, but still, sometimes, it’s still hard,’ then you’re less vulnerable to those words. It’s about you taking care of yourself and believing in yourself. Once you do that, those words have no power over you.”

A Few More Suggestions

Let me offer you a few more suggestions you can give to your daughters about how they can handle teasing in words and those sorts of things. One of them is there is this concept I heard about a while back. When I’m talking to a girl in a retreat, I’ll say, “How about this? How about I give you in cash, right now, $86,400? There are no strings attached. I pull up my wallet, count $86,400, and give it to you. How would you feel?” They’re like, “Awesome. It’s free money. I love it.” I say, “That’s great. You take it home. Tonight, your little brother comes into your room and he takes $10 off it without asking. How would you feel?” They’re like, “I’d probably not like it. I’d be mad.” I said, “Would you like to throw a fit and flip out?” They said, “Probably not. It’s only $10. I still would have a $6,390 left.”

I tell them, “Here’s the metaphor. In every day, there are 86,400 seconds. If someone is a jerk and disrespectful to you for ten seconds, you can use your tomato words. You can let it go and not make it important. You can be like, ‘Whatever,’ and move on or you can make a big deal of it and ruin all the rest of the day. Is it worth it? Is it worth giving away $86,390 because someone took $10? Probably not.” That’s a good metaphor for, “Do I want this to ruin my whole day? It’s not that big a deal. I can take care of it. I don’t believe it. It’s not true. I can shrug and go, ‘Whatever,’ and walk away.”

The other thing that’s important for girls as far as handling teasing and handling bullies, if you will, is there’s a lot of power in having friends. We do an exercise. My wife and I, when we go to schools and in our camp sometimes, we’ll have some kids come in the middle of a circle, maybe three girls. They’re pretending to sit at a lunch table and there’s one open spot. We have a fourth girl come and walk up and say, “Can I sit down with you guys?” We ask 1 girl in the group of 3 already sitting down to act like the queen bee. She’s supposed to say, “You can’t sit here. There’s no room,” and be disrespectful and very exclusive. We tell the other two girls to go along with the queen bee. We’re like, “Whatever she says, follow her lead.”

The fourth girl walks up and says, “Can I sit down?” The queen bee says, “No. There’s no room here. Why don’t you go sit at the other table? We’re waiting for somebody else.” We pause and stop. We’ll say, “How do you think that that fourth girl would feel?” They’re like, “She’d feel left out. She’d probably feel sad.” We then pick this role-play a part. We’ll ask them, “Why do you think someone might act that way, i.e. the queen bee?” We flush out a whole bunch of reasons why sometimes people in their classrooms are disrespectful, exclude people, leave people out, or tease people.

Every group I’ve ever worked with has put out all these great ideas about how maybe some are having trouble at home. Maybe her older sister is always making fun of her. She’s upset so she takes that out on people at school. Maybe she likes that powerful feeling she gets by having 2 or 3 people or the whole class be intimidated by her. Those two girls who are sitting by her at the table follow her lead. It gives her a tremendous sense of power. People are giving lots of feathers to that girl. It’s an inappropriate way to get feathers. It’s an inappropriate way to be powerful, but it works in a sense.

We had them share all kinds of reasons why someone might act that way, and then we asked why those two girls followed along. They know better than to tease somebody. Yet, they go along with it. Why? That’s an important part of this role play. They talk about how they’re so intimidated by that queen bee or they’re afraid, “If I don’t go along, I’ll be the next victim.”

We flush out lots of reasons why girls may give their power away to that queen bee. They’re afraid of her. They’re afraid that, “If I don’t go along with her, she’ll either tease me next time or she’ll kick me out of that group. I spent so long trying to get into this popular group. I don’t want to get kicked out. If I get kicked out, I’ve got nobody. Nobody wants to have no friends at school.”

We talk about the reasons why the bystanders, if you will, go along with that and don’t stand up for their friends, each other, and/or themselves. We redo the role-play and tell the queen bee to do the same thing. One of those two girls sitting down, we tell them, “Why don’t you show us a way you could stand up for that girl who’s walking up?” We say, “Ready, set, go.” The girl walks up and says, “Can I sit down?” The queen bee says, “No. There’s no room,” and then one of the girls will show some way. Sometimes, they’ll say, “Let her sit down,” and the queen bee starts to argue.

A lot of times, what happens is that girl will stand up and go, “Okay.” She grabs the other girl’s hand and they walk to another table together. That’s a beautiful way of saying, “We’re not giving our power away. We’ll go over here when there are no other places to sit.” Sometimes, girls will take that girl’s hand and plop her down in that seat like, “It’s not a question. We’re not asking permission. She’s sitting here.” We give them lots of opportunities to show ways they can stand up for each other without yelling something or being disrespectful back to that queen bee.

It’d be easy to say, “Haha,” and then the three of them walk away without her and look back like, “We got you.” We tell them, “Is that going to allow that queen bee to change the way she treats people? Is that going to cause her to sit back and go, ‘Maybe I need to change my behavior?’ or is it going to make her angry, and then somebody else is going to get it?” We teach them how they can stand up for each other.

There have been some good studies that show when there’s bullying going on in the classroom, the best programs to stop and prevent it are not the ones that work with the bully and the victim. It’s the ones that work with the bystanders. We call them guardians in our Strong Girls, Strong World school program. They learn to guard each other and take care of each other.

After we do the role play and they all understand, we have them make a commitment to each other and the class that they’re going to start standing up for each other and they’re going to choose to be guardians. If someone makes a mistake and starts to be exclusive or something like that, they make a pact. The rest of us are going to say, “Time out. Cut it out. We said we weren’t going to do that.” It’s amazing how powerful that is for the class. It empowers everyone and lets them know, “I’m not the only one. I’ve got people who have my back.” That’s a big confidence builder for kids.

I read a story in Mr. Rogers’ biography which I read several years ago. He was a sickly kid. He had asthma. He had to stay home a lot, especially all summer long. He couldn’t go out because he had asthma attacks, had trouble breathing, and all this stuff. He spent a lot of time indoors. He was a chubby little kid, not very athletic. His peers called him Fat Freddy. Mr. Rogers is Fred Rogers. He struggled to fit in. His family was very wealthy. He would go to school with a chauffeured limousine. He always felt like, “I don’t quite fit the mold,” but something helped him when he got into early high school.

There was a guy from the football team. He was a very popular player. His name was Jim Stambaugh. He had to spend several weeks in the hospital. Fred’s mom arranged it. Fred would go and take his homework every day and tutor him. He was having some struggles keeping up in school because he was out of school for about three weeks. He and Fred ended up becoming friends. When this kid went back to school, he started letting the other kids know, “Fred’s a good guy.” He started including him in things. Mr. Rogers, i.e. Fred, said, “That made all the difference in the world for me. What a difference one person can make in the life of another person. It’s almost as if he said, ‘I like you the way you are.’” That line sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

It’s protective to have a friend or some friends. It’s also protective for schools and classrooms to make those agreements and those intentions with each other. They’re looking out for each other. Encourage your school to have a program come in if they need to or have the teachers set that up so that they all make commitments about how they’re going to treat each other.

I have one other quick example and then I’ll wrap this up. At my weekend retreat with the middle school girls, we didn’t exercise in the very first evening. The girls come at 7:00 on Friday evening. We have these big playing cards. They’re probably 3×6 inches. What we’ll do is have the girls sit in a circle and then close their eyes.

We will take these big playing cards and take maybe 3 or 4 of the highest cards, some ace, king, queen, and jacks. We will also take several, 3, 4, or 5, of the lowest cards, some 2s and 3s, and then a few in the middle. We put one in front of each of the girls face down and tell them to open their eyes. We tell them we’re going to have them put the card up on their forehead facing away. They do not know what their card is. They don’t know what the card value is. Everybody else in the circle does, but not them.

We tell them we want them to mill around like they’re in the hallway of school. The objective of the game is to try and hook up with, connect with, and become friends with people with the highest card values. The highest cards are ace, king, queen, jack, and all the way down. The objective is to try and connect with people with the highest card value. We’re like, “We’ll give you two minutes. Ready, set, go.” We tell them also, “No talking at all.” if someone walks up and gives them that look like, “Can I join you?” the other person can look at their card value and shake their head yes or no.

We let them play it out for a minute or so. We’re watching because it starts to feel like middle school hallways. It starts to feel like school because people will come up who have a 2 or 3 value typically. Somebody with an ace, king, and queen will look at them like, “No,” so they have to find somebody else. You see some of these kids shut down. They stop trying. That’s how it usually plays out, but on this particular weekend, an amazing thing happened.

There’s one of the girls who’s been coming to camp for several years. She had never seen this exercise. This was new to her. Right from the start, when people came up to her, and she had a pretty high value, as I remember where she had a queen or a king, without talking, she started gesturing, “Everybody come over.” Other people were going with other people and some of them were being excluded. As soon as they saw her doing that to other people, they all started to crowd around. They created one big group. It took less than a minute. It was amazing. It’s like one of those where you’re like, “These kids are amazing.”

We stopped and said, “What happened?” They said, “You said to find a group, so we’re all in a group.” I said, “What about the card?” They said, “It doesn’t matter.” This girl said, “I decided I didn’t like it, so I decided I’m going to cheat. I’m going to connect with whoever I want.” That’s how they created their group. I wish this girl was in every hallway of every middle school in this country to create that kind of energy around her.

That led to the discussion about who decides in your school who has the high card value and who has a low card value. They talked about the kind of clothes people wear, who’s popular, and who’s not. We talked about who says who’s popular. Those are important conversations for girls to have to start to realize, “This is all like a game and there are no rules. We can make up our own rules when it comes to who we’re going to connect with or whether we’re going to have a hierarchy or not.” That set the tone for our weekend. We had an incredible weekend. Those girls were so close, kind, and inclusive. It was so much fun. They also were much more willing to be vulnerable in our circle time because they trusted each other. They had been accepted. They weren’t feeling judged.

This is all just like a game. There are no rules. We can make up our own rules. Click To Tweet

Every girl needs to learn to not give their power away. They need to understand that there are no mean words. There are some words that are disrespectful. What you do with those disrespectful words, you are in charge of. You can get your feelings hurt. You can get angry. You can react. You can talk to other people about that mean girl and create a big drama, which is what happens to most girls in most schools, or you can not let it bother you. You could turn it into a tomato word. You can use a mighty might and the butt twist. You can metaphorically do the push game where you’re like, “I’m not going to give my power away. I’m going to keep my feathers.” It is empowering for girls to learn they can keep their feathers.

A Bit Of Wisdom From The Buddha

Let me end with one of my favorite stories. I may have said it before. If you’ve read it before, then bear with me. This is a story about Buddha. One day, he was sitting around and a bunch of his followers were listening to him. He was teaching some lessons. A general from the Army came storming in and was very angry. He started screaming at Buddha, cursing, and trying to provoke him. Buddha sat there quietly. He kept a little smile on his face, which aggravated the general.

He got angrier. He started cursing. He started threatening Buddha’s life. At one point, he drew his sword out as if he was going to hurt Buddha, but Buddha didn’t react. He sat there, smiled, and gave nothing back to the man. Eventually, the general got frustrated. He put the sword back in his sheath and stormed off. Once he was gone, Buddha’s followers turned to him and they said, “I can’t believe you didn’t say anything. That guy was screaming at you. He was cursing at you. He threatened your life and you sat there. I don’t understand.”

Buddha said something that I want all of your girls to embrace. What Buddha said was, “If someone offers you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong?” His followers said, “It belongs to the person who offered it.” Buddha said, “That’s right.” The same thing goes for someone who offers you a gift of mean words, disrespectful words, disrespectful gestures, gossip, rumors, and all that. You’re not at their mercy. You can learn to not take it on. If you don’t take it on, it goes back to that person.

I strongly encourage you to read this with your daughter to bring up some discussion about things that they’ve experienced, what they did to take care of themselves, and what they might do. You can do some problem-solving with them. They need tools and practice. When my wife, Anne, and I go to a school, we don’t go for one visit. If we get called into a sixth-grade class of girls, a sophomore in the high school team, or something where there’s lots of drama, we tell the coach or the principal, “We’re going to need to do some follow-ups because this is a process for them to learn to set intentions, learn some tools, practice, make some mistakes, come back, and get reinforcement.”

It’s going to be a process for your daughter also to learn to take care of herself, especially when they’re in those vulnerable, insecure ages in middle school because there’s so much going on. Give her some tools. Teach her to use tomato words and all that. What you’ll have when she comes home from school is more scenes like I had with Julia in my office, a sense of confidence, a sense of pride, and a sense of being so happy and proud because she knows how to take care of herself. She’s no longer at the mercy of other people. She has learned to keep her feathers.

I appreciate you coming by in every episode. I appreciate you sending these episodes to other people, like friends of yours who have daughters. This would be a great one to pass on because they all are struggling with friends. All of them are facing this, not just in middle school. It starts in grade school or earlier. We’ve had classrooms of 1st and 2nd graders where they’ve called us in because there’s so much stuff going on all the way through. They’re never too early to learn the skills. I’ll be back here with a new episode. As always, thanks so much for stopping by. I’ll see you back here.


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