Dr. Jordan interviews Doula Kristin Revere about her new book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. They discuss why new parents seem more anxious today and the best support for them throughout the pregnancy experience.
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Why Are New Parents So Anxious Today And How Can We Better Support Them With Kristin Revere
Thank you so much for stopping by here every week and reading a topic. I’ve spent a lot of time on these episodes lately talking about older kids, young adults, people going into college, and in college. I thought I would dip my toe into the other end of the pool and talk about the other end of the age range, which is before kids are born and talking about new parents. Maybe not a new parent, but a parent who is pregnant to talk about the whole process of preparing for having a baby and how you can get support. I asked an expert, her name is Kristin Revere, to join us. First of all, thank you so much, Kristin, for coming on.
Thanks for having me, Tim. I’m excited to chat.
Kristin is an elite certified birth doula and an elite certified postpartum infant care specialist. She’s a childbirth educator and newborn care specialist. She’s the Owner and Founder of the Gold Coast Doulas and cohost of her own show called Ask the Doulas. My wife, by the way, was a Lamaze instructor a long time ago.
I love it. I took Lamaze with both of my babies.
When we first got married, she was teaching those classes. She was a postpartum nurse then she added that as one of the things. We had three kids and all of them with no medication, including our last one, John, who was 10.2.
Nice size.
All that with no meds, which she wanted. She had an incredible coach sitting right here.
I can tell. You attended Lamaze classes, so you know.
I did. I wanted to talk about several things. First of all, is there anything else that we should know about you other than what I said?
I am a mom myself and my youngest is a boy. I have a thirteen-year-old, so very relevant to your show. The timing is good for my stage in life then I have a step daughter. I started dating her dad when she was seven, so I’ve been through many life stages with my stepdaughter as well.
Kristin’s Background And Journey
How’d your path wind to becoming a doula? I’m curious.
I had kids late in life. I worked in advertising sales, and in political and nonprofit fundraising. I became very passionate about women’s health and realized that there weren’t a lot of local options in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for a full-service agency. I decided to teach classes myself as a hobby. After I had my son, I hired doulas with my son and worked with nurses and midwives. I had kids in the hospital unmedicated through taking Lamaze.
I felt like I prepared a lot. I hired lactation consultants with both of my kids for two separate reasons as my daughter was in the NICU. I had preeclampsia with my first, so feeding her was challenging with the goal of breastfeeding because she had enhanced formula. IV is starting out. I was pumping and so to transition when she got home from the NICU to breastfeeding took a lot of support.
I don’t presume or assume anything, tell our readers quickly what a doula is. I know what they are. Two of my kids who have kids already use doulas. The third who is pregnant is also going to use a doula as well. Tell our readers what that means.
There are many different types of doulas and we talk about the different types of doulas in our book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby which I cowrote with Alyssa Veneklase. There’s everything from bereavement doulas to bed rest or antepartum doulas to birth doulas, and day and overnight postpartum doulas. There are also some doulas that don’t necessarily work with children that deal with loss for adults as well.
We offer a full spectrum of doula support from, again, bed rest or supporting loss, fetal demise, and infant loss. With birth doulas, it would be the most commonly known doula. We support our clients with evidence-based information, physical support during the labor, and coaching, so that emotional support, and work with the partner and the birth team. It could be a doctor or a midwife and the nurses if it’s in the hospital.
We support our clients wherever they deliver. They may deliver at home, in a birth center, or in a hospital. We go where they choose to give birth. We’re non-medical. There’s a lot of confusion with the role of a midwife and a doula. We are not medical in the way that a midwife is. We don’t catch a baby. We’re more of the coach.
My daughter had our first grandson years ago and my son-in-law did great and they had a doula. It was helpful because her labor was 38 hours.
That’s long.
A long way and a long pushing. The doula was extremely helpful for them to help both of them support.
It’s often a very physical role, whether a client has an epidural or not. We’re changing positions with the client, helping with hip squeezes, counter pressure, and labor massage, and showing partners how to do some of those techniques. It is a physical as well as an emotional support role.
One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is I’m noticing that a lot of people who are having kids, there’s a lot of anxiety more than I think was in the past. I’m wondering if you also are noticing that with moms and dads that you are supporting.
Impact Of COVID-19 On Parental Anxiety
I am seeing a lot of anxiety. I feel like it began during COVID. In Michigan, we were fortunate and we were considered essential workers. We only stayed home for about four days and then were able to work in hospitals. The certified doulas went through health screens. We wore a mask for two years. We were seeing a lot of that anxiety increase with restrictions for visitors in hospitals, with interactions with the fear of COVID, and reducing visitors and family interaction.
Some of those clients are now having baby two or three since the early pandemic. That anxiety is still with them from that first baby, the pregnancy, the restrictions, and the fear. Clients are also, similar to my own story of delaying childbirth and focusing on my career. I had kids later in life at 36 and 38. There can sometimes be issues with fertility. I didn’t personally struggle with that but certainly, many of my clients have gone through other losses, miscarriages, and IVF.
With some of those prior losses, there is a lot of anxiety and fear that they might have challenges in their pregnancy and the birth itself. With fertility journeys, again, that fear of losing the baby or all of the emotional and physical changes that happen through the IVF journey can also impact the emotional state of a couple. It’s not just the mom. It’s also the partner.
People have always worried when they’re pregnant, is it going to go to term? I’m not going to have a miscarriage? Now, people are waiting on average later. It’s after them, I’m not sure if it’s 30 or 32. They’re considered a geriatric pregnancy. I’m talking to a lot of young women, they get ultrasounds every five minutes. Not every five minutes, but like weekly. Even if there’s nothing going wrong, just because of their age and at higher risk, sometimes the medical profession adds to those fears.
Somebody I know had those frequent ultrasounds and they would tell the parents, “We knew there’s a little something on this ultrasound. It’s probably going to be okay, but we should probably check this in a week.” This happened throughout the pregnancy. I can’t imagine I wouldn’t be a nervous wreck having all of that to worry about much less than normal things we have to address as new parents.
I know having had preeclampsia later in my pregnancy. At 37 weeks, I was on bed rest then I was induced a week early. There was that stress of not only worrying about the baby but my own health. As a mom, even with a great support system, it was scary the second time I was pregnant because I didn’t want to go through that again. It didn’t want to have another NICU baby. I luckily avoided any interventions. My health was good. Although, I did have some signs of preeclampsia the second time. Whether it’s gestational diabetes or preeclampsia, hyperemesis, or other medical issues, it can also cause some anxiety and fear.
I also wondered too if maybe you’re also finding this so much information that parents are grabbing onto books, the internet, videos, and YouTube. There’s just so much information more than there’s ever been. Information is not bad, but sometimes a lot of the young parents I’m seeing, get overwhelmed with it.
There are all these parenting groups and they can give completely different information. It may not be evidence-based. As doulas, we can get research to our clients to have an informed conversation with their pediatrician or with their OB. They can ask questions and feel like things aren’t happening to them rather than taking advice of what someone did in their own parenting journey. Something that might have worked for them or even family members. They’re very well-meaning, but they’re not pediatricians. They’re not experts like yourself. They may not have the best information to give each family.
Trusting Parental Instincts
This is where I hear from them is, parents end up losing the ability to trust their gut. That extends into their parenting because there’s also a lot of information about how to parent and all that. There’s a lot of value and trusting your gut as opposed to looking outside of you all the time.
We talk about that in the book. It’s a part of what we talk about. Trust your instincts even as a new parent. Certainly, look into research but if something seems off with your own body or with your baby, bring it up and have a conversation with your provider. Our guts can be very helpful. As moms, we do have some instincts. Right from the start, I felt very protective of both of my kids and could tell if something was off or not normal with their feeding or my son having tongue-tied. It didn’t feel the same as breastfeeding with my daughter.
Trust your instincts even as a new parent. Share on XThis is what I remember from my little Lamaze class that I took with my wife a hundred years ago. My wife wanted to do natural childbirth and as a former pediatrician, I haven’t done medicine for a long time. I know the effects of those medications on the newborn baby and how they can affect it. Also, the ability of the mom to understand what’s going on in her body. They lose a feeling of things. Sometimes it makes the pushing harder. That’s another place where sometimes women and men too, they lose the ability to trust themselves.
Agreed. Again, having all of the information at our fingertips is not the best. Many times, I am able to google things. Googling information can often cause more fear than going right to the pediatrician or lactation consultant and getting expert advice.
I can see a woman in the delivery room with her phone googling what’s going on with my body now, as opposed to tuning in.
Going inward, trusting our own instincts, listening to our body, and understanding what our body is doing by taking a childbirth class like Lamaze or Hypnobirthing or even a hospital class.
We’re talking with Kristin Revere. She is a doula and she works with parents to help with the whole birthing process. She also is the author of a book entitled Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, which she cowrote with Alyssa Veneklase, which is a great book. I’m going to be passing this on to my son and daughter-in-law after this interview.
There’s some good information on there. I also wonder too, if you’re also noticing in parents because some of them are a little older to the game. If there’s more of a sense of perfectionism that also they bring with them because they’ve been out in the workforce. There’s something different about maybe a 21-year-old having a baby versus a 36-year-old having a baby.
Some of that is because they wanted to again focus on their career or hadn’t met the perfect partner. They know what they want. They can afford to hire help and I find that parents who waited often understand the value of support, whether it’s getting a housekeeper or grocery delivery service. Not just registering things on having friends and family gift them physical items for a shower. They’re asking for postpartum doula support on their baby registries and knowing that sleep is important to them.
The older the parent, the more sleep is essential than a twenty-year-old having a child, for example. We find, especially if they’re in a managerial role or a physician or attorney. They’re going to value sleep. They want to return to work and be at the same high level that they were before having their first child or their fifth child. They’ll hire experts like doulas or newborn care specialists to get them the rest that they need, or their partner might be going back right away within a couple of days or weeks. They value that support. They’ve done the research well in advance and tend to hire us more so than, say, our younger clientele.
Building A Dream Team Of Support
The book, by the way, is called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. In one of the chapters, you talk about the importance of building a dream team of support. Tell our readers what you mean by that and what you would include on a dream team.
Every couple is different and goals may be completely different. You may have family in your area and don’t need a lot of support from a postpartum doula or they’re willing to help around the house. It might be having pelvic floor physical therapy or lactation support, or someone to childcare for other siblings. Getting into a daycare center or an in-home daycare to be able to then focus on one child versus managing 3 to 4 other children.
Understanding is it like who you want to be at your birth? Again, are you open to a birth doula? You’re a provider of choice and some people value photography or videos of their birth or those early moments. Investing similar to another life occurrence, a wedding, or building a home, what is the most important thing to you for the wedding? Is it food? Some families might want those postpartum meal delivery services.
They could be a local chef or it could be a subscription box service and things that save them time and give them the nutrition that they need, especially if they’re breastfeeding. They want to focus on their nutrition and nourishing themselves and staying hydrated, for example. It can definitely vary. It’s based on what are the goals, and what other resources you have of friends and family members who may be able to replace some paid-for services.
I would guess that many years ago, all those people in the dream team were called grandma or grandpa because, in general, we tend to live in the same town. We may have lived in the same building. It was easy for grandparents, aunts, and uncles to be around. Nowadays, a lot of young people move away. They’re in other cities so built-in support is not there.
Again, many of us are in that in-between age of caring for our parents and for children. If they delay having kids and are older, their parents may not be young grandparents. They might need additional support from the parents as well as care for their children.
By the way, we’re talking to Kristin Revere, author of the book, Supported: Your Guy to Birth and Baby. She’s a dual who’s been working with parents for a while. You also talk in one of the chapters about post-partum depression. Also, something I didn’t realize was post-partum anxiety and how that’s oftentimes even more common in post-partum depression, which seems to get more top billing.
Postpartum doulas are birth doulas or on the lookout for any signs of perinatal mood disorders. It can be anything from PMAD. You’re looking at depression and anxiety. There can be obsessive thoughts and so on. We are always referring therapists, or we have an excellent program in my community. That’s a mother-baby program through Pine Net Rest where you can bring your baby to the appointments during the day. You’re getting the support you need, but also being able to care for your baby.
There are many postpartum support groups or lactation support groups that give resources and support with any anxiety or depression or obsessive thoughts. We’re always referring out if something seems off, we’re having them talk to their primary care provider, their OB or midwife, then getting the help that they need.
This is true. If it’s not, you tell me. For the majority of moms and dads, there are some normal amounts of irritability and sadness. There are some losses that occur with having a baby which we can talk about or you can talk about. Some of that is normal. I don’t want to over-dramatize it because a lot of people who read these episodes are probably thinking, “This generation is spoiled and they need to toughen up.” I think that’s true at some level. I also think that there are a lot of normal changes that happen before the birth, during the birth, and after the birth that need to be normalized for parents.
Baby blues are hormone fluctuations. They’re very common. Not only in those first couple of weeks but also when salads are introduced for breastfeeding moms. Weaning can also cause hormone fluctuation as well. It’s not just initially after birth that there may be some changes in hormones and may cause some of that weeping, and sad feeling. Again, when our clients know what is normal and what is not normal then they’re able to get help.
I always say with clients they’re seeing the pediatrician so regularly that if they’re seeing something that or they’re feeling off and need resources. Sometimes they’re in the pediatrician’s office weekly at first and they’re not seeing their OB for six weeks. Again, if they need resources and they don’t have a doula. That’s a good place to go.
Maybe this is obvious, but before you have your first kid, you have a sense of, “I’m going to lose some of my freedom. I’m going to lose a little bit of spontaneity.” I don’t think they realize the depth of that until you have a kid because that’s 24/7. Sometimes, that can cause issues and a lack of time for self-care.
Having a baby changes your life in unexpected ways. It’s important to prepare, but also to embrace the surprises. Share on XBalancing Self-Care And Parenting
It’s important to take time for yourself and step out and just sip on some tea, have some normalcy, and visit with a friend. I find as a doula that pregnancy, especially for first-time moms, is so celebrated. After they deliver, it’s all about the baby. People want to bring gifts for the baby. They want to hold the baby, but the mother, her feelings, and her experience, whether her birth was traumatic or not, and her new role as a mother is often not something that people think about when they’re trying to support.
Celebrating the pregnancy is important, but let’s not forget to support new moms emotionally after birth. They need it the most. Share on XThey think if they hold the baby and come over, when oftentimes moms feel like they then have to entertain and get food and snacks. They want to feed the baby or go take a nap, but company is there. They have no one to process things with or to hear them. They feel so lonely at a time when people want to help, but they don’t always know how to help.
No loss back in the day when I was a pediatrician. I used to see sometimes with parents, in particular moms because they have a different connection because they carried the baby for nine months. They formed a relationship before the baby’s ever born. They have dreams, hopes, aspirations, and have a sense that this is what my baby’s going to look like and be like and what I want for them. Sometimes, that’s not what comes out. They may get a child who’s a lot different than they thought. Sometimes parents have a hard time reconciling that.
Again, seeing a therapist or going to a support group and processing that. I even talked to my clients about journaling, writing out their birth stories and how they’re feeling, taking some time, and taking deep breaths. When it comes down to it, sleep is so essential. As they say, sleep when the baby sleeps and try to get support, whether it’s from a doula or from a partner to maximize sleep with many nights of lost sleep. That compounds that anxious feeling. The feeling that you’re isolated and alone or for the perfectionist mom that things aren’t going right. The more tired they get, the more things go wrong.
Writing The Book ‘Supported’
We’re talking with Kristin Revere. She’s the author of a book called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. I hope this is true. I’m wondering if things like doulas are much more acceptable and much more accepted. Not so weird like things like yoga. Everything has a time when it’s new and it’s not what people are used to. It takes a while for people to become accustomed to it. This is a valuable thing. I wonder if that same thing has happened with doulas.
Starting out as a doula many years ago, it has definitely changed. People used to think that doulas were only for homebirths. We’re very crunchy and not mainstream. My agency is we pride ourselves on professionalism. We work with a lot of corporate clients and physician families. Also, some of our doulas are very natural and make their own baby food.
We think the role of a doula has changed in the public, but not in the media. If you see movies with a doula in them or a TV show, they’re often more of that crunchier version of a doula than someone who is professional and works alongside a family. There are many different types of doulas and there’s nothing wrong with either tight. I feel like we’re more respected now in the medical community.
I attend many conferences with other healthcare professionals and we’re much more accepted than we were when I was a new doula. I don’t know if part of that is Medicaid covers doulas in certain states, including Michigan now and some self-funded insurance programs cover doulas. General insurance does not, but health savings and flex spending have for several years. There are fertility benefits like Carrot and Progyny that also cover birth doulas and postpartum doulas.
That makes it more known if you’re looking in your company benefit package. If you have a doula, you may not have known about what a doula was and now you do or maybe a friend used a doula and shared that experience. It’s certainly changed quite a bit since I started out doing the work. Postpartum doulas are not as well-known as birth doulas as I mentioned earlier. They are getting more known as some of these benefits open up.
As I talk about in the book Supported, when you’re looking at setting your budget for birth and baby the way you would for a wedding or building a home, what things are covered by insurance of the different dream team members and what things might be valuable to put on a health savings or flex spending account and what is important to you to self-pay. Again, doulas might be something that could be partially funded or registered for services like doulas or photographers.
We mentioned earlier in the show how parents are inundated with information, pre-partum, post-partum, and parenting kinds of things. Sometimes some of those things are conflicting. With your book Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, I know it’s a whole book, so you don’t have time to summarize it but what was your reason for writing the book? What are the most important kinds of things you want parents to take away?
I want parents to understand all of their options because if you don’t know your options, you don’t have any. I couldn’t find a guide on the market like supported. The closest thing would be to the book would be what to expect when you’re expecting. That’s written by a mom and has had many different versions. It’s not from the role of a doula and knowing what our clients want.
The book came out of an online course that Alyssa and I created during the early stages of the pandemic called Becoming a Mother. The modules are very similar to our chapters but not everyone can afford to hire us or take the online course, whether it’s timing or budget. I wanted to make accessible information and the book being in so many different formats.
It’s soon to be out on Audible and has the Kindle version, the hardcover, and paperback. There are many ways to consume books and I consume many books using the audio versions because life is busy. I’m in the car a lot and I’m doing household errands. I like to listen to an audiobook. I think that many families will use that option, especially if they have a subscription already and they get a free book every month.
You also have lots of references here. You have apps that parents can get on that are supportive for people when they’re pregnant, about the delivery, and about postpartum. There’s all kinds of good information in your book. How can people get ahold of you?
They can get ahold of me through the Gold Coast Doulas website and that’s GoldCoastDoulas.com. We’re on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, and YouTube, all under searching Gold Coast Doulas and @GoldCoastDoulas. The book page is SupportedBook.com and you can search Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby also on Amazon, but our book page has various booksellers as we add them, whether it’s virtual or in-person bookstores that are starting to carry Supported.
Thank you so much for stopping by here and giving young parents some information. Also, grandparents, maybe second or third-time parents. Everybody can use some information about this whole process.
Thanks for having me on, Tim. I will continue to tune into your show and learn how I can support my daughters.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
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That was great. I hope you all enjoyed that. It’s a little bit different topic than you’re used to hearing from me. Here’s the book, it’s called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. It’s an easy-to-digest book and information, and you’re not going to be overloaded by this information. It’s a lot of resources and things. Things you probably haven’t thought of as far as the whole of when you’re pregnant, delivery, postpartum, and all that thing.
I’ll be back here with a brand-new topic. I’m grateful that you stopped by. Pass this one on to any young couple you know or middle-aged couple you know who are pregnant, getting pregnant, or maybe who are in the process of prepartum, partum, and postpartum. It’d be a good gift for them to prepare themselves for the process and for their experience. I’ll be back with a brand-new episode. Thanks again for stopping by.
Important Links
- Kristin Revere
- Gold Coast Doulas
- Ask the Doulas
- Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby
- Instagram – Gold Coast Doulas
- Facebook – Gold Coast Doulas
- Pinterest – Gold Coast Doulas
- YouTube – Gold Coast Doulas
- Supported Book
About Kristin Revere
Kristin Revere, MM, CED, NCS is an Elite Certified Birth Doula and an Elite Certified Postpartum and Infant Care Specialist. She is also a Childbirth Educator and Newborn Care Specialist. She is the owner and founder of Gold Coast Doulas and co-host of the Ask the Doulas Podcast. Kristin’s work has appeared in First Time Parent Magazine. She lives with her family in Grand Rapids, Michigan.